[jeekim]

Uskumatu aga siin polegi veel sellist teemat!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nI8z8EL1M-s

[Mannu]

Jeekim, ilus ja lugemakutsuv on oma linke mistahes teemas pisut sisulise külje pealt tutvustada. Et millest tuleb jutt, kes räägib, miks meeldib ja miks ei meeldi vms.
Pealkiri jääb liiga üldsõnaliseks.
Ka minul on komme, et üldjuhul ma ei klikka linkidele, kus mingit tutvustust ei ole.

[jeekim]

Aitab mõista kuidas valeuudiste vastasest võitlusest saab propaganda ja tegelikku probleemi ei nähagi. Sihilikult jätsin poliitpartisanide jaoks magusa osa välja, see kuhu oma propa kahurid tavaliselt üles panevad.

Those who fight fake news, I think they are more bothered by this uncontrollable plurality.
The true problem is not cheating with facts, the way you select some facts, can make you report a lie.
Decades ago, for example, then there was Cold war, if anything we got more fake news whenever just totally integrtated into the - lets call it - hegemonic ruling ideology.
Soviet Union, Eastern Block has it's own version of fake news, the liberal West - may be a bit better - but nonethless it also had another version of fake news.
The difference was that these fake news was controlled, it was one big state ideology.
What bothers people today is this dispersal and uncontrollable character.
You start some rumor on the inernet and some on...
So that is my first point.

2:15 Secondly, what usually critics of fake news attack is so-called post-modernism, the idea that there is no objective truth, every truth is relative, specific to a certain situation and there is no abstract independent truth.
There are things where you should say they happen unambiguously.
But the problem is elsewhere.
When we talk about history we never talk about all the facts.
You present a certain construct, story.
Then you deal with data selectively.
You see that's the limit of those who are against fake news.
They don't see that true problem is not cheating with facts.
All your facts may be true, but the way you select some facts but ignore others can make your report which is only composed of true facts a lie.
So, wht we have to accept is the facts are always analyzed, selected from a certan standpoint.
And that's why the most dangerous news in a sense of lie, is a lie that relies on true facts.
Because it's much more dangerous, much more efficient.
The problem is why you are telling a story in such a way.
So, again this is the limit of this naive positivism - let's just report how things are and so on and so on.
No, all our interpretations, how we write history and so on no matter how we rely on facts - we organize facts in a certain way.
And also we can organize facts in a truthful way or in a lying way.
This is getting blurred today which is why I think that this debate on fake news is typical of our predicament.
But you know what I fear more?
I fear more that what is beneath this fear of fake news is really a desire not for truth but like it was before, this obsession with fake news for some lie that we all know that is a lie, but that would be at least a single obligatory lie.
That whose attack fake news don't really care about the truth.
What worries him is that there's no ideological clear obligatory space.
And that is the good function of fake news - they make us aware of how arbitrary often is what we think the truth is.

[jeekim]

Mõtlemise treeninguks!
L.H.Lehmann - Behind The Dictators

1.
JESUITS, JEWS AND FREEMASONS

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to understand fully what has been taking
place in the world for the past twenty-five years unless we are
able to grasp the underlying significance of what appears on
the surface. It is necessary to penetrate behind the scenes of day-to-
day happenings and examine thoroughly the active forces and
planned objectives which are responsible for all that has come to
pass so quickly in the past few years.

The 19th century left us deplorably weak in true knowledge of
the history of State-Church conflicts. The facts of human develop-
ment since the Reformation have become so inextricably tangled,
that we have ceased to try to unravel them. We content ourselves
in America with a mere superficial knowledge of events, and the
conclusions arrived at, far from helping us to get at the real truth,
only drive us farther away from an understanding of the real
meaning of these events. Too much emphasis has been placed
upon the mere economic aspect of the world-situation. The
ideological and theoretical origins of Nazi-Fascism, as a conse-
quence, have been almost entirely overlooked. Research is necessary
to show where social, political and religious conflicts cross one
another. There is abundance of incontestable proof that the forces
of religion, as represented by the Catholic Church, have succeeded
in dominating the political and social field, and that there exists a
close bond between them and the origins, methods and objectives
of the whole Nazi-Fascist movement in Europe. Furthermore, this
domination has already spread to America. History proves that in
every attempt made during the past half century against the liberal
progress of mankind, the Jesuit Order, as the leader of Catholic
action, has played a decisive role. We can go even so far as to state
that Nazi-Fascism had its origin in the Society of Jesus, and that,
like other movements in the past analogous to Fascism today, it
was planned to serve the traditional aims of the disciples of Igna-
tius Loyola.

---

As long as this reverse side of the conspiracy against democratic
liberalism goes undetected, Fascism will survive. The defenders of
democratic ideology will not be victorious until they come out
openly against their real enemy—the Knights of the Black Crusade.

The Jesuits were once irrevocably expelled from the nations of
Europe, and from the Catholic Church itself, by Pope Clement XIV
in 1773, and the only refuge they could find during their forty
years of banishment was with the impious Catherine of Russia.
Sworn to obey and defend the pope in all matters, they were hard
put to it (even as Jesuits) to find a way out of the dilemma of
being proteges of a monarch who thumbed her nose at the pope—
in order to protect them from his wrath. Not to be outdone, the
Jesuits politely and diplomatically protested to Catherine for thus
disobeying the pope. And having thereby satisfied the requirements
of their oath, they proceeded with a clear conscience to accept her
hospitality. The truth of the matter is, that the Jesuits are not so
much sworn to protect any individual pope as such, but rather the
institution of the Papacy. By this Jesuitical distinction they hold
themselves free to resist any pope who fails to follow their dic-
tates; nor would they lament if such a pope were "providentially"
speeded on his way to heaven. It is they, in fact, who comprise the
Papacy. Their unalterable aim is to restore the nations of the world
to the control of the Catholic Church.

As recently as 1886, the public press spoke frankly and fearlessly
about the menacing tactics of the Jesuits to secure this world-
control by the Papacy. The New York Tribune, of Sept. 19; of that
year, in a dispatch from Rome reporting the serious illness of Pope
Leo XIII and his subsequent rapid recovery, states that the London
Times referred editorially to the report that Pope Leo's close
approach to death "was due to poison administered by the Jesuits."
It relates that, after his sudden recovery, the pope established a new
policy in the Church towards the Jesuits, "and that this new line
of policy is the price at which he was able to procure the antidote
which they alone could supply." The Tribune report goes on to say:

"Within three days of the recovery from his illness, the pope issued
a Bull re-establishing all the privileges, immunities, exceptions and
indulgences formerly accorded to the 'Society of Jesuits', and declaring
null and void all documents which his predecessors have ever written

---

against the order. The fact that Leo XIII restored the order to what it
was in the days of its supreme power is more than enough to paralyze
all hopes of a peaceful determination of the conflict between the Vatican
and the Quirinal; for the Jesuits constitute the belligerent element of
Catholicism, and are thoroughly 'intransigent' on the subject of the tem-
poral power of the world escaping from the control of the church . . ."

Far be it from us to doubt the sincerity of the Jesuits and their
followers in believing that the control of the world by the Catholic
Church is the only solution for the ills of mankind. They are wel-
come to their conviction, and are free in the United States to propa-
gate their teaching and carry out their activities towards that end.
The traditional manner in which they carry out their designs, how-
ever, should be disturbing to all who strive to sustain the demo-
cratic ideology and the principles of freedom and tolerance cher-
ished so highly in this country.

In order to obtain their objective, they spend all their energies
(as Nazi-Fascism does) against the two forces they consider in-
imical to their cause—Judaism and Freemasonry. From its first
founding, the Jesuit Order has battled, by every means, against
these two, because they are the chief advocates of tolerance and
freedom for all. By the ruthless elimination of Jews and Free-
masons in so many countries of Europe, Nazi-Fascism has merely
effected what the Jesuits have schemed and worked for during
many centuries.

In France, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Spain, Belgium and
Italy, the Jesuits, for many years before Mussolini and Hitler, led
the fight against the Jews and Freemasons. In each of these coun-
tries it was a Catholic priest (prototypes of Father Coughlin) who
was the spearhead of Fascist attacks on both Judaism and Free-
masonry. In France it was the Jesuit Father Du Lac, with his Ligue
Nationale Anti-semitique de France; in Germany the Jesuit Fathers
Overmanns, Muckermann, Loffler and Pachtler; in Hungary it was
Father Adalbert Bangha, and Father Bresciana in Italy—all of
these worked under the banner of Positive Christianity and Chris-
tian Front to fight Judaism and Freemasonry, in order to get the
millions of unsuspecting non-Catholics to serve their ends. They
all proclaimed a crusade for "The Christian Reformation of States

---

and of the World."1 Father Overmanns2 states that "the rock of
positive moral Christian law"3 is the best foundation for the crea-
tion of organizations capable of reuniting the members of all
Christian religions.

Father Hugger, S. J., shortly after the establishment of the Ger-
man Republic, wrote (in Stimmen der Zeit, June, 1919, p. 171):

"We are facing a ruinous state of affairs. Once again the work of
restoration will have to be accomplished by youth. Will the Congrega-
tions of Mary not go forth for the third time as the instrument of recon-
struction chosen by Divine Providence?"

Hitler4 also identified his National Socialist Party with "Positive
Christianity." In his Mein Kampf he states that he imbibed his
anti-Semitism and his hatred of Masonry from the Catholic Chris-
tian Social Party of Lueger, then Mayor of Vienna, when he went
there as a young man. "By combatting the Jews," he says, "I am
helping the work of the Lord."

This "Christian Reform of States"—which is also the subject of
the late Pope's famous encyclical Quadragesimo Anno—is nothing
else but the establishment of the Fascist, Corporative State, in
which neither Jews nor Freemasons will have any part. Needless to
say, it is also anti-Protestant.

The Jesuit Fathers Pachder and Muckermann proclaimed the
Fascist doctrines of Nazism before Hitler was heard of. Father
Muckermann wrote prolifically in favor of racial eugenics and
sterilization,6 and continued to do so even in spite of the condemna-

1 P. Loffler, S. J., Zur Jubelfeier der Marianischen Kongregationen Frei-
burg, pp. 21, 47: G. M. Pachtler, S. J., Der Stille Krieg gegen Thron und
Altar. (The Silent War against Throne and Altar), 1876; P. Bresciani, S. J.,
The Jew of Verona and The Roman Republic, published in the Jesuit
magazine Civilta Cattolica. Rome.

2 In Stimmen der Zeit (Jesuit magazine), Feb. 1918, p. 182 et seq.
3 For the Jesuits, "Christian" is synonymous with "Roman Catholic".
4 Cf. Art. 24 of "The National Socialist Party Program": ''Die Partei als
solche tertritt den Standpunkt eines positiven Christentums."
5 P. 70, 1931, German ed.
6 Cf. Muckermann, Hermann, S. J.: Volkstum, Staat nnd Nation—eugen-
isch gesehen ("The People, State and Nation — from the Eugenic view-
point") ; also his Rassenforschung und Volk Zukunft, Berlin, 1932, in which
he expresses the desire that the doctrine of race will penetrate the national
consciousness as a religion (p. 81).

---

tion of sterilization in the encyclical Casti Connubii of Pope Pius
XI in 1929.

Jules Michelet, the great French historian, in his Histoire de
France, and the German historian Wilhelm Herzog,7 stress the
fact that those who directed the anti-Semitism at the time of the
Dreyfus Affair depended upon the instructions and, above all,
upon the financial support of the Jesuits. The Croix de Feu and the
Parti Francais in France, and the Catholic Rexist Party in Belgium
also had the support of the Jesuits. The Libre Parole, anti-Semitic
daily newspaper, was founded by Jesuit money and its treasury was
constantly replenished by them.8 The anti-Semitic leaders of the
Dreyfus Affair, which was a plot against the French Republic, were
products of Jesuit schools or had Jesuit confessors. In France, as
elsewhere, anti-Semitism and anti-Masonic campaigns took the
form of "integrated Nationalism/'9 They called for expulsion of
Jews and Freemasons, the overthrow of the French Republic, and
the setting up of a "Nationalist State." Henlein's Party in Czecho-
slovakia, likewise, preached the doctrines of Othmar Spann, the
theoretician of the Corporative State and a protege of the Jesuits.
One of the first acts of Father (now Monsignor) Josef Tiso, when
he became Nazi premier of Slovakia, was the destruction of all
Masonic lodges.

In his Mem Kampf Hitler repeats these principles of the Jesuits
against Judaism and Freemasonry like a well-trained parrot. All
that he says against the Jews and the revolution in Germany after
the war, about Zionism, Jewish exploitation of indecency and
obscenity in literature, movies, theater and the press, their part in
the organization of vice, prostitution and white slavery, was bor-
rowed almost word for word from the official writings of the
Jesuits. Everything he says, likewise, against the Freemasons—
their fight for religious tolerance, their efforts to break down racial
and religious barriers, as well as their alleged disloyalty to Ger-
many during the world war—is in agreement with both the teach-
ing of the Jesuits and of the popes in their encyclicals against

7 Der Kampf einer Republik—die Affare Dreyfus, p. 34, et passim.
8 Cf. Herzog, opus cit., pp. 27, 52.
9 Idem, pp. 26, 36.

---

Masonry. The Jesuit Father Bea,10 shortly after the revolution in
Germany, wrote:

"The part played by many Jews at the time of the revolution . . . the
Zionist movement ... all this should be a lesson to those who take their
religion and their country seriously to put themselves resolutely on the
defensive. The increase of anti-Semitic literature and anti-Semitic
organizations is evidence that the people are ready for the fight against
Judaism."

As far back as 1911 Father Overmanns, writing in Stimmen aus
Maria Laach, states:

"It is impossible to deny the harmful influence of the Jews "on the
ideal which we desire in our literature. . . . The Jews make use of the
great scope of their influence to spread corrupt and obscene principles
and thus cause immense damage to the spiritual life . . . Everyone can
see that they create many literary works which are inspired by vile and
worldly ideas . . . the hooks of these writers are filled with the base
pleasures of life, a vile sensuality and pure naturalism. The commercial
sense of the Jews is not offended by the worst obscenities, white slavery,
prostitution and immorality of all kinds . . . "

The popes before Hitler proclaimed all this in even more brutal
terms. Pope Pius VII, who restored the Jesuits to the Catholic
Church and the nations of Europe after the downfall of Napoleon
in 1814, issued a Bull in 1821 against the Freemasons. He calls
Freemasonry "a cancer and a deadly disease of society." And the
reason he gives is because Masonic Lodges uphold the idea of
religious tolerance: ". . . they receive into their order all classes
and all nationalities, and favor all kinds of moral codes and all
forms of worship."

The culminating point in the Vatican's fight against Jews and
Freemasons is to be found in the encyclicals of Popes Pius IX-and
Leo XIII. Pius IX styles Masonic Lodges "Synagogues of Satan,"
and accuses them of having fomented wars and revolutions which
put Europe to the fire and the sword. Pope Leo XIII, in his ency-
clical Humanum Genus (1884), calls Freemasonry "a work of the
devil," and "an impure epidemic." He accuses Freemasonry of
aiming to destroy the churches, the state, and the public well-being.

10 In Stimmen der Zeit, (Jesuit magazine), 1921, p. 172.

---

He states that among the chief reasons why Freemasons, and
democracy, must be condemned are the following:

"They teach that all men have the same rights, and are perfectly
equal in condition; that every man is naturally free; that no one has
a right to command others; that it is tyranny to keep men subject to
any other authority than that which emanates from themselves. Hence
they hold that the people are sovereign, that those who rule have no
authority but by the commission and concession of the people, so that
they can be deposed, willing or unwilling, according to the wishes of
the people. Thus the origin of all rights and civil duties is in the
people or in the State, which is ruled according to the new principles
of liberty. They hold that the State must not be united to religion,
that there is no reason why one religion ought to be preferred to an-
other, and that all must be held in the same esteem."

He ends his encyclical by inviting all the Catholic clergy as well
as the whole lay world to exterminate the Freemasons without
mercy.11

All this was the plan of Mussolini and Hitler as expressed and
put into practice by Nazi-Fascism. Circumstances have permitted it
to go farther than the popes and to carry its principles by propa-
ganda, invasion and war, into the whole world. In undermining
the position that Jews and Freemasonry acquired since the French
Revolution, it threatens to destroy the entire work of political and
religious freedom initiated by the Protestant Reformation. It thus
serves the aims of the Roman Church and the Society of Jesus,
founded chiefly for the work of Counter-Reformation. For both
Roman Catholicism and Nazi-Fascism regard the ideas that
came out of the Reformation and the French Revolution as the
chief source of the evils of our time—evils which they trace for
their origins to Rousseau, Calvin, Luther, John Huss and Wycliffe
—to Paris, Geneva, Wittenberg, Prague and London.

All of this again is to be found in the "Protocols of the Elders
of Zion." An examination of this matter in the next chapter will
show conclusively that this infamous forgery is the work of none
other than the disciples of Ignatius Loyola.

11 Father Coughlin's magazine, Social Justice, Oct.-Xov. 1939, reiterated
all this in a series of three articles entitled Freemasonry in the Scheme of
Satan. They repeat the papal assertions that Freemasonry is allied with the
Jews and Communists, and end by calling it, in the words of Pope Pius IX,
"The Synagogue of Satan."

---

IT IS ADMITTED by all intelligent people that the so-called
"Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion" are criminal forgeries,
and could never have been written either by a group of Jews
or Freemasons. Yet their authorship remains unknown. The amaz-
ing part of it is that this fantastic fraud has succeeded in its planned
objective—the ousting of all Judaic-Masonic influence in Central
Europe by methods that would bring a blush to the cheek of a
Torquemada.

The contents of these alleged Protocols are well enough known,
and have been broadcast by Nazi-Fascist (and Roman Catholic)
agents in every country as verbatim reports—proces verbaux—of
secret conferences at which certain Jewish leaders drew up plans
for the formation of an invisible world-government. With the help
of Masonic Lodges and the liberal, democratic, socialist and com-
munist parties, these "Elders of Zion" are said to have conspired
for the overthrow of all non-Jewish governments and to destroy
all religions other than Judaism. Every despicable means to weaken
Christian institutions is set forth by the imaginary leaders of this
vast conspiracy.
All this is to be accomplished principally by means of the
Masonic orders throughout the world, as the blind dupes and will-
ing tools of this alleged super-imperialism of the Jews. Credit is
claimed for the Jews in having instigated practically all revolu-
tionary movements of the past century, assassination of rulers and
heads of states, all the wars, civil, racial and international, and all
the upheavals in and throughout the nations—from the Protestant
Reformation to the economic conditions that resulted in our busi-
ness depression. Behind it all there is pictured the cold calculation,
the unscrupulous cunning and murderous fanaticism of these
"Elders of Zion." Protocol One tells of a vast army of spies and
secret agents, well supplied with funds, who bore from within and
create dissension and revolution in all countries. Support of an-
archist, communist and socialist movements for the destruction of
Christian civilization is outlined in Protocol Three; also the debase-

---

ment and ruin of the currency system, leading to a world-wide
economic crisis. Universal war against any nation or group of
nations which fails to respond, is planned in Protocol Seven. Pro-
tocol Ten contains particulars how all morality is to be undermined
and leading statesmen blackmailed, compromised and calumniated
in order to force them to serve the ends of the conspirators.

The secret conclave, at which these monstrous plans were pur-
ported to have been drawn up, is said to have been held under
the auspices of "one of the most influential and most highly initi-
ated leaders of Freemasonry"; they are also said to have been
"signed by representatives of Zion of the Thirty-Third Degree."

No group or organization could ever be as evil and satanic as
these Judaic-Masonic "Elders of Zion" picture themselves to be.
They are the apotheosis of the anti-Christ, and could have been
conjured up only by theological minds imbued with the fearful
expectation of the eventual coming of an anti-Christ.

It must be admitted that there, is a certain similarity between
this revolutionary plan of action and the Bolshevist program that
followed the assassination of the Czar of Russia and the overthrow
of the Kerensky regime. But of the seventeen members of the
Council of People's Commissars of the Soviet government at that
time, only one, Trotsky, was a Jew. Neither have the Masons ever
been the least bit influential in Russia, either under the Czar or
the Soviets. A world-wide economic depression also has since
happened, somewhat similar to that allegedly planned by these
elders of Zion. By no means, however, have the Jews and Masons
ever so completely controlled the world's finances. They suffered
as much as others as a result of the economic debacle in 1929.

The Nazi-Fascists, who have successfully exploited these Pro-
tocols to their great advantage, and who have used these criminal
forgeries to attain their primary objective, might well be accused of
their authorship. But their publication antedated the rise of Fas-
cism by a quarter of a century, when Hitler and Mussolini were
youngsters learning their multiplication tables in school, and
Franco babbling his "Hail Marys" at his mother's knee.

Now, authorship of an anonymous document is best discovered
from the document itself—by the cause it favors and by the enemies
it depicts.

[Tyto Alba]

Jeekim on ennast usinalt rakendanud rahvaste hävitajate vankri ette.
Lasin sellest oopusest silmad risti-põiki läbi - ehtne moodne liberaal bolsevistlik düsenteeria.
Korrutatakse seda sama saasta mis Marxi "kapitaliga" ja muude taoliste töödega lahti läks.
Ignoreerides täiega REAALSEID sündmusi ja inimesi, ning NIMESI nende taga.

[jeekim]

Kui Tyto Alba arvab et jeekim ei näe teksti propagandaosa siis las arvab uuesti, aga tema ärritus oli etteaimatav.

[Tyto Alba]

Ärritusest on asi kaugel - lihtsalt fakti konstanteering.

[jeekim]

Far be it from us to doubt the sincerity of the Jesuits and their
followers in believing that the control of the world by the Catholic
Church is the only solution for the ills of mankind.

Jeekim pole iialgi kahelnud natside, kommunistide ja Tyto Alba siiruses, küll nende erapoolikuses ja arusaamisvõimes.

[Mannu]

Jeekim, palun anna oma pikale ingliskeelsele postitusele (#6) eestikeelne lühikokkuvõte. Või siis lase ise google tõlkemasinast läbi, ning vaata sisulise ja vormilise külje pealt üle, kas on arusaadav. Eeldada seda lugejalt, kes teemat ei valda, annab tulemuseks selle, et sõnum ei jõua osadele kohale. Meil on eestikeelne foorum, kui on soov võõrkeeles suhelda, siis on selleks eraldi foorumiosa.

[jeekim]

Tekst on fashismi sümbioosist jesuiitlusega, muideks ka Mein Kampfi aitas Hitleril valmis kirjutada padujesuiit (Father Stempfle). Jah liberalismi propaganda aga valitud faktide peal kasvatatud.
Peaks ravima "mustade kahurite" (Riik + Kirik pildil näidatud sümbioosis) tekitatud mõistuse nikastust, viimse tõena ei maksa võtta saab veel liberalismi nikastuse.

[jeekim]

Osalised faktid, kontrollimatud allikad, tõestatud faktidena toodud bluff, hirmunõred, elav kujutlusvõime, tõde läbisegi valega,
kaos, valeuudistest häiritud rahvas, rahva nõudmistele tullakse vastu,
uus kord.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI8z8EL1M-s

"That whose who attack fake news don't really care about the truth. What worries them is that there's no ideological clear obligatory space."

Need kes ründavad valeuudiseid pole tegelikult huvitatud tõest. See mis neid tegelikult muretsema paneb on kohustusliku ideoloogia puudumine.

[jeekim]

Millal siis põhiseadus pühakirjaga kooskõlla viiakse?

---

Sobivad omavahel nagu metsas puud seentega (Riik ja kirik).

---

Elections are a Spiritual Battle and Onlu Mature Christians Are Ideal Candidates

Katoliiklust tampiv true believer.

[jeekim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAE78rm5jY
What happened to the fundamental constructs of church and state?

Huvitav visioon, manduva kapitalismi õlekõrreotsingust. Seoses muutustega Riigi-Kiriku konstruktsioonis.
Kolmnurk religioon-kapital-riigivõim. Kuidas kapitalism kohaneb muutunud ühiskonnaga, millise religiooni leiab olevat sobivaima. Herbert Marcuse, repressiivne desublimeerimine ehk kapitalism kui plastiline kohanduja. Algsest saati on tõmbutud jõuliselt kristluse poole. Ristiusk-kapital-riigivõim. Max Weber, kalvinism. Protestantlik eetika ja kapitalismi vaim, voolitud kristlaste poolt ja kristlaste jaoks.
Kapitalismi tulevikku näeb (Zizek) eemaldumises kristlusest, sõpruses budismiga. Liikumine sotsioökonoomilisi konstruktsioone tähtsustavast minevikust universalistlikumasse-budistlikumasse tulevikku.

[Aadu66]

Õigeusku pöörati siinkandis üle-eelmise sajandi teises pooles. Ei viitsi otsima hakata, kuid vist tehti pöördunutele (maksu)soodustusi ja lubati maad. Eestis ei saanud nad küll vist midagi, aga Siberisse ja Kaukaasiasse ümberasunud õigeusklikud said küll mõlemat. Eestlane on alati pragmaatiline olnud (Muna Ott "Rehepapist"). Eriti palju rahvast läks tsaariusku saartel ja Lääne-Eestis. Peipsi äär on traditsioonilised vanausulised ja Setumaa on kogu aeg õigeusku olnud.
Üldiselt käis selle usuvahetusega üks rahva lollitamine, et siis pääsete mõisniku alt minema kui tsaari usku astute. Sealt need saarlaste Andrid ja Leksid kõik pärit ongi!

[jeekim]

Riigist läbi ja loõhki sõltuvat kirikut on poliitikas üha enam?

jipijee (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Aadu66]

Kui kirik muutub mõjuvõimsaks, teevad poliitikud liidu temaga. Nii nagu aegade alguses. Ikka ja alati.

Nonohh? Pole see mitte alati nii olnud.
Kirik oli Venemaal maatasa tehtud viimaseks sõjaks. Nii nõrk pole vene kirik vist iial olnudki, kui 40-ndate alguses. Aga kui Jossil ikka täitsa peenike pihus oli, siis tuli kirik meelde küll.

[jeekim]

Kristlaste hulk Eestis kahaneb pidevalt, ent politiseerub aina enam

Aitäh Lokstarile lingi eest!

[jeekim]

Nojah, eks seda sektantlust ole suurte voolude kõrval alati olnud ja iga uksele koppija kiidab ikka oma usku selleks ainukeseks ja õigeks. Eks see esseenide värk ju samuti omaette sektantlus oli, kust kuuldavasti Jeesus olla välja kasvanudki. Rooma spioon Saulus/Paulus oli vist olnud see, kes kiriku laialt teelt metsa juhtis ja kogu kupatuse katoliikluse radadele pööras ja Jessukese elutöö ärvis. Aga see polegi ju tähtis. Üldiselt kummardab kristlus ikkagi ainujumalat ja tema poega. Vahel võetakse ema ka kampa ja mõned hindavad ühte rohkem ja teisi vähem ja vastupidi. Sellest küljest mina erilist vahet ei näe. Variatsioonid ainult.
Üldiselt pole aga paavstid avalikult kirikuga vastuolulist juttu ajanud. Praegune paavst on oma karja tõuganud segadusse, kui pehmelt öelda. Ja päris paljud kirikujuhid on juba tema vastu sõnagi võtnud. Aga see on kahe otsaga asi. Kuidas sa ikka jumala asemikuga maa peal vaidled? Samas aga kui ta hakkab vastalist juttu ajama, siis peab ju keegi ometi välja astuma pühade tõdede kaitseks. Viimane võib aga jällegi kurvalt lõppeda. Eks neid märtreid nüüd jälle tuleb!
Kas revolutsioon levib ka kirikusse?

https://www.para-web.org/showthread.php?...#pid267430
The church to rule the world.
The pope to rule the church.
The jesuits to rule the pope.

The truth of the matter is, that the Jesuits are not so much sworn to protect any individual pope as such, but rather the institution of the Papacy. By this Jesuitical distinction they hold themselves free to resist any pope who fails to follow their dictates; nor would they lament if such a pope were "providentially"speeded on his way to heaven. It is they, in fact, who comprise the Papacy. Their unalterable aim is to restore the nations of the world to the control of the Catholic Church.

---

As recently as 1886, the public press spoke frankly and fearlessly
about the menacing tactics of the Jesuits to secure this world-
control by the Papacy. The New York Tribune, of Sept. 19; of that
year, in a dispatch from Rome reporting the serious illness of Pope
Leo XIII and his subsequent rapid recovery, states that the London
Times referred editorially to the report that Pope Leo's close
approach to death "was due to poison administered by the Jesuits."
It relates that, after his sudden recovery, the pope established a new
policy in the Church towards the Jesuits, "and that this new line
of policy is the price at which he was able to procure the antidote
which they alone could supply." The Tribune report goes on to say:

"Within three days of the recovery from his illness, the pope issued
a Bull re-establishing all the privileges, immunities, exceptions and
indulgences formerly accorded to the 'Society of Jesuits', and declaring
null and void all documents which his predecessors have ever written
against the order. The fact that Leo XIII restored the order to what it
was in the days of its supreme power is more than enough to paralyze
all hopes of a peaceful determination of the conflict between the Vatican
and the Quirinal; for the Jesuits constitute the belligerent element of
Catholicism, and are thoroughly 'intransigent' on the subject of the tem-
poral power of the world escaping from the control of the church . . ."

[Mannu]

Väljavõte foorumi reeglitest:
3.6. Võõrkeelsed tekstid
Lühikeste võõrkeelsete tekstijuppide puhul tuleb lisada ka tõlge. Pikemate materjalide puhul piisab lühitutvustusest või sisukokkuvõttest. Kui kasutad oma postituses võõrkeelset tsitaati, siis hoolitse, et see ka tõlke eesti keelde leiaks.

Ja nüüd arutlusse niipalju kui aru sain. Paistab nii, et kui osad inimesed peavad kõige halva sünnitajaks siin maailmas vabamüürlasi või juute, siis sina (jeekim) pead jesuiite. See oli nüüd liialdatult öeldud, aga sinnakanti küll.

Sinu tekstist: "...Tegelikult moodustavad/sisalduvad?? nad paavstluse. Nende muutumatu eesmärk on taastada maailma rahvaste üle katoliku kiriku kontroll." Sinu postituse esimese paksendatud lõigu kaks viimast lauset. Tõlke mõte õige/vale? täpsustused?

Nüüd blondiini küsimused. Kas paavst on jesuiit? Kuidas jesuiidid paavstlusega seotud on? Kui paavst ja ka luterlikud kirikujuhid paljud suhtuvad nt homoabieludesse pooldavalt, siis kuidas suhtuvad jesuiidid? Kui valdavaks kujuneb liberaalne läänekristluse tiib, siis tuleb kõne alla pigem kirik-riik liberaalses variandis? Kui palju on Eestis jesuiite? Kas mõni on Riigikogus/valitsuses?

Üldiselt erinevalt Loksterist, mina ei räägi konkreetselt Eestist, vaid püüan vaadelda laiemalt. Ei saa Eestit muu maailma kontekstist välja võtta.

Minu nägemuses paistab, et läänekristlus on muutunud väga liberaalseks. Kas nad enne lõppu tahavad pooldajaid sellega juurde võita? Politiseeruvad aga jah, nii liberaalsed kristlased kui nende vastastiib. Kahjuks 25.10.2020 Jeekimi postituses olnud artiklit lugeda ei saanud, mul ei ole Päevalehe tellimust - seepärast jällegi oleks olnud hea lühitutvustus, mis on pikem pealkirjast.

Natuke poliitikvälist ka, jesuiidid Lätis, Unesco kultuuripärandi hulka kuuluv rahvakild suitid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1T6BxnO...nel=UNESCO Alguse saanud ühest jesuiidist.

[jeekim]

Ja nüüd arutlusse niipalju kui aru sain. Paistab nii, et kui osad inimesed peavad kõige halva sünnitajaks siin maailmas vabamüürlasi või juute, siis sina (jeekim) pead jesuiite. See oli nüüd liialdatult öeldud, aga sinnakanti küll.

Totalitaarne ülekohus tegelikult, jesuiitidest kirjutan et foorumi poliitika suhtes tasakaalu jonks oleks.

[Mannu]

Totalitaarne ülekohus tegelikult, jesuiitidest kirjutan et foorumi poliitika suhtes tasakaalu jonks oleks.

Väga hea, aga tee seda eesti keeles, siis saab arutada ka. Nagu Lokster teeb.
Selle tasakaalu jonksuajamisega kaldub olema nii, et jonksuajajad on sellised ühe lause postitajad ja ainult lingi viskajad. Pikemalt kirjutavad oma vaateid lahti need, kes on oma jaoks nagu rohkem asjad selgeks mõelnud ja oskavad oma sõnadega seletada, mitte ainult ei pane vastuseks pikka võõrkeelset joru või linki.

[jeekim]

https://www.para-web.org/showthread.php?...#pid265378
But the problem is elsewhere.
When we talk about history we never talk about all the facts.
You present a certain construct, story.
Then you deal with data selectively.

Aga probleem on mujal.
Kui me räägime ajaloost kunagi ei räägita kõigist faktidest.
Faktid võetakse valikuliselt.
Esitatakse teatud konstruktsioon, lugu.

Vandenõuteooriad on valikuliste faktide kokkuklopsid ja uhhuumõistus haarab valikuta mis talle ette söödetakse. Seega sobiv keskkond teooriate loojaile kus palju uhhuumõistust koos. Laiaslaastus nagu iga laps teab kaks põhi vandenõuteooriat, globalistid ja jesuiidid.

Püüan end "psühholoogiliste allhoovuste" peal hoida et mitte laiali valguda.

---

Koppisin siis siia kah.

2. Sugereeriv astraalgrafiti uhhuumõistusest max hirmude väljanõristuseks. Osav hirmude suunamine ja ühendamine ühiste nimetuste alla.

3. Riigi ja kiriku võimu toetuseks petitsioon. Totalitaarne kirik ja totalitaarne riik on ainus lahendus inimkonna hädadele.

4. Riigi ja kiriku abielutõotuse uuendus.

5. Keskaeg.

---

Totalitaarne ülekohus tegelikult, jesuiitidest kirjutan et foorumi poliitika suhtes tasakaalu jonks oleks.

Väga hea, aga tee seda eesti keeles, siis saab arutada ka. Nagu Lokster teeb.
Selle tasakaalu jonksuajamisega kaldub olema nii, et jonksuajajad on sellised ühe lause postitajad ja ainult lingi viskajad. Pikemalt kirjutavad oma vaateid lahti need, kes on oma jaoks nagu rohkem asjad selgeks mõelnud ja oskavad oma sõnadega seletada, mitte ainult ei pane vastuseks pikka võõrkeelset joru või linki.

Tasakaalu jonksuga ei pea kirjutama pikalt, pole vaja teha propat.

[jeekim]

Nende muutumatu eesmärk on taastada maailma rahvaste üle katoliku kiriku kontroll."

Their unalterable aim is to restore the nations of the world to the control of the Catholic Church.
Jah proge mitte peatuda.

Jah selles on sul õigus, et mul on pitserirahvast täiesti savi. Lihtsalt ma tean ,et kõrbe kunn ei jahtu enne kui on ,,tagasi,, söönud selle ,kelle maamunale ise külvanud. Ma ju räägin , ta saab ära viia vaid neid ,kellega on siduvad niidi ja lepingud. Pitser. Muid ei saa. Kõik katsed kaasa tõmmata maksimaalselt masse, sunnivad kogu kupatust pitseri osaks saama. Ja mitte ainult inimesed. Ka koha, looduse ja muu veab kaasa kui pidurit ei tõmba.

Valguse võit. Tavased valgused, valgusmõõgad taevaste käes, põrgutuli, põrguvürstid, tulimaod, deemonid.........Valgus võrdubki tulega. Tulesoe poolusel. Kliima. Stepi Vaim. Kõrb. Lõvi. Jumal. Invasioon. Alistus.Vallutus. Nimeta üks verine vaim( sus) mis oleks lipul kandnud saatanat, pimedust või muud valgusele vastanduvat. Tuli allutab, vallutab ja ka HÄVITAB.
Iga viimnegi ühsikond lõpeb pauguga ja valgusega. Võidab tugevaim ,ressurss lõpeb ja areenile asub veelgi tugevam.
Me oleme kolmeks ( veel ) eraldatud Jahwe ajastus. Kohe saab selleks üks ja ainus ainujumal ,sisaldades kõiki eelnevaid. Tema proge on mitte peatuda. Müüt ja tasakaal ei kuulu tema atribuutikasse. Lõvilik õigus. Kõrb ähib jääle selga. Tuli on alati laienev materjalist sõltuvalt. Mida saab põletada ,see ka tuld elus hoiab. Pagulastel on ,,laieneja,, ressursid välja kaevandanud ja nahka pandud. KÕIK liigub põhja poole. Lugege sõna sõnalt. PÕHJA poole. Supipaja põhi paistab. Iga laienev nähtus ühiskonnas on tuli ja valgus. Majandus, sõjandus, vaimsused, kultuurid.......... tuli, deemonid, valgusküllased vaimud, säravad inglid. Nii nagu ,,põhi,, pole see mis oli nii ka pole kõrgused ja ,,valgused, need mis meile vastu võtmiseks progetud.

---

Vaimses mõttes jesuiitlus on kristluse maailmavalitsusproge läbi misjonäärluse, nõrk paavst pole veel selle lõpp, ei jõua kõike tõlkida ühe näite tõin ka (Leo XIII).
https://www.jesuit.org.uk/who-are-jesuits

[jeekim]

Kui palju on Eestis jesuiite?

Märka suhteid Vatikani ja fashismiga, jesuiitlus vajab täidesaatvat kätt. Uhhuude lähedal ka hea otsimiskoht. Vaba aega neil uhhuude ja teooriate jaoks jagub!

Terve Piibli vältel on juudid hoidunud Jumalast eemale. Vastupidi, juudid tahtsid poliitikat, nõudes Jumalalt - anna meile kohtumõistajad, anna meile kuningad ! Nad ei tahtnud, et Jumal mõistaks kohut, ega tahtnud, et Ta oleks isand.
MIKS juudid sellise religiooni lõid ?

Isikutes sisemistele konfliktidele viitasin küll aga vahet pole, tähelepanekuga nõus. Aga egas Jumal saagi juhtida, tal pole siin maailmas käsi.

[Tyto Alba]

Selliste piltide puhul oleks tore anda ka konteksti kirjeldus.
Ilma selleta on sinust ja sisust keeruline aru saada.
Pildil on Hitler ja "mingi munk" - kes nimelt ja mis on üritus?!