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Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Autor Sõnum
KuKr
Roogitav räim

Postitusi: 612
Liitunud: Nov 2018
12-04-2019 09:21
Postitus: #51
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Ühe Maailmareligiooni tulevikust üks kõnekas pilt. Näide, kui napakaks võib minna maailmareligioon, mis on ühe riigi omand.
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(selle postituse viimane muutmine: 12-04-2019 09:22 KuKr.)
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Lokster
Vana kala

Postitusi: 643
Liitunud: Mar 2019
15-04-2019 14:29
Postitus: #52
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Religioon näitab kindlasti veel oma võimu ja vägevust. Paljus juba praegu oma sädelevas njueidz rüüs aga kindlasti pole see ,,tuhande aastane rahuriik,,. Kõik maailmas tuntud religioonid ja usundid on tulnud maalähedasest elusviisist , mida religioonijärgsus nimetas šamanismiks. Kuna kogu teadus ja ajalugu baseerub kirklikel allikatel ,siis seda kontrollida on keeruline. Kui kellegil on temantkaart Vatikani, siis leiab ka kirjanduse varasest elust. Ametlik teadus ütleb ,et enne kristlust oli elu pime hädaorg ja kannatus. Hakkame sealt peale ,et põrgu alused religioonidest on teisendatud põhjala HEList. Lisan siia pika teksti inglise keeles. Kahjuks feissar tõlget ei paku. https://www.facebook.com/21stCenturyHeat...__tn__=K-R Ehk kannatab google translatega pusida ,kel ingliss raske lugeda. Point selles ,et see mis paganluse alistas -hävitas on just vastupidiselt liikunud ajas. See ei tähenda ,et ususõdade vallutustega praeguses mõistes. Eks veedades ole paljut ka kirjas kui on olemas tõlkevõimekus. Tekst ei pretendeeri tõele kui ei meeldi. Ei hakka lisama ,et uskumist ei soovi paljud tegelased. Nad mitte ei takista uskumast, nad ka takistavad seda oma kahuriliha hinnaga. Ja selle all ma mõtlen vana naasmist. Indiaanastel on palju ,,vana naasmisest,, kõnelevat pärimust. Kasvõi põhja kotka ja lõuna kondori kohtumise võtmes. Tekst on pikk.
A deeper, semi-academic view on whom the Old Indo-European Gods might really have been.

To see the basis for my hypothesis go to: AND https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakten_p%C3%A5_Odin https://www.geni.com/projects/Odin-s-Kin/12244

“History evolves to myth and myths are the dreams of nations they are neither logical nor straightforward. If we have a need to view history in a chronological order, we have a problem when it comes to myths, not least to mythical poems. Hilda Ellis Davidson has pointed out: if in our strong desire for rational we try to create a logical scheme out of such scattered ideas and images we’re doing violence to the tradition of the poets and the seers who left us clues to the nature of the other world.” 1988 page 72 to 73 ~Excerpt from the book “The Saga of Vanadís, Völva and Valkyrja: Images of the Divine from the Memory of an Islandic Woman,” by Valgerður Hjördís Bjarnadóttir.

Just like most Ancient mythology that is handed down, in each fantastic sounding tale, a seed kernel of some truth is always at the heart and at the beginning of any story.

Let us travel back back in time, some 5000- or so millennia back, and listen if you will to the story being shared around the campfire:

“What if I told you in a time of long ago, before the time of penning tales, a story was told that by It’s very telling, these WORDS made Gods? That is that one day, The Jötunn* folk who came from the far cold north, began to learn to harvest and plant seeds, and then to gather and herd animals, so then a new tribe formed; and This new tribe were so close to the Earths magics, because they still loved their Jötunn ways, but they also developed a mystical language learned from a tribe they met in their travels south called Alfkonan’s who came from Alfheimar; that they had befriended, so they then became to be called the Vanir, after settling in Vanakvisl. This new co-mingled tribe of north born and southern folk were a tribe that could speak as Earth Folk to Jord, but were also powerful as Alfin seers to Nott, who was understood to be God Herself where Ymir was formed. This new tribe of Vanir spent thousands of years living in harmony with the Ancients Ones of Forests, streams, oceans and fields- Old powers of life, death, sun, moon and stars; and all manner of life in between, for a very long time. These new Tribes of Old Earth and Star ways, came to know much joy, harmony, and abundance in all things.

Then from afar, a Son of Jord saw it time and took up a tool, that would subdue his mother and her original people’s, giving him forced domain over many of the old wild Folk he surveyed. This strong first man had a Chieftain and King, who sought all knowing and had learned the art of Forming mass civilizations and huge powerful armies that brought war and domination over all Jord and her children.

This new Tribe came, and they had Tools and weapons of mass dominance and used them for great numbers of HUMAN civilizations to be formed.

Their Mightiest Man used his most magical tool of utter domination to conquer the Wild Folk who knew how to be one with this First Man’s own mother Jord. His tool was a hammer, and it had a name. He used his hammer to smash Those old Northern Folk that even his Chieftain was descended from, ~though The great King would not speak of it.

This new tribe from the eastern direction came with horses and armies, and they were called the Aesir. After much warring and conquering, the Aesir assimilated the Vanir, and too, the jötunn Folk they had co-mingled with.

When they ALL had begun to co-mingle and learn each other’s ways, a shining Priestess came into the central hall to show the ways of the Great Goddess. As she enticed them with her golden beauty, the Chieftain became enraged, as these feelings were not what he was accustomed to feel; so fear and distrust swept through them greatly. This mighty King ordered the Priestess burned and stabbed, but yet, she did not die as her magic’s were stronger than the Kings fear and his assembly’s misunderstanding.

The Chieftain came to see he was lacking much from the distance he came to see he had from this Great beauty whom they simply called “Freyja,” so when he saw her power in this priestess, he captured her and made her his own, and learned the ways of ancient earth magic’s called seiðr.

The more he learned from watching Freyja, the more he longed to be like her and know more; but as he was the Chieftain of the Aesir, he only half got it right, and in time he came to know of his own death.

After many years of great magics, and much profound deeds, This king took to wandering all the worlds, and became the first Shaman, and he (as well as his magical tribe he lead-the Vanir and the Jötunn Folk combined within his own), never really fully died, though their body’s turned to dust long before writing was known.

Instead they stayed on with the Nornir and the Disir, the Fylgja’s and the Shades of the Ancestors and the Alfs; thus becoming Gods and Guides to the descendants of these first people, who are still listening this very day.”

~What would say of such a song being sung around the fire of so long ago?

All Pre-Christian Pagan practices followed a similar mind set that what mattered spiritually was living in an animistic harmony with those natural unseen allies, as well as leading an exceptional human-centered tribal life that might be so full of “hero’s deeds” a person (any person-but usually Kings, Earls, Priestess and Priests, or warriors) stood a good chance to be elevated by superhuman feats into Ancestral God-hood; thereby breaking free of the common reincarnation cycle of having to be reborn into ones descendant family line, thus living evermore among the other world’s beings and cosmology.

*Although the term giant is sometimes used to gloss the word jötunn and its apparent synonyms in some translations and academic texts, jötnar are not necessarily notably large and may be described as exceedingly beautiful or as alarmingly grotesque. Some deities, such as Skaði and Gerðr, are themselves described as jötnar, and various well-attested deities, such as Odin, Loki, and Thor are descendants of the jötnar. Powerful jötnar of the Ancient Legends are the Nornir, as well as Jord herself. [Earth] (here we come to understand-Jontunn is the ROOT people of ALL NORSE TRIBES)

Like the story above, many world wide mythical legends contain tales of people who are later venerated as God’s.

From the Celtic mythos of those real life Legends who attained immortality, or the voodoo Loas of ancestral people who become Gods that can possess and live on through their worshipers; to the Shinto faith of Japan, every culture that has adherence to a true Ancestor veneration spiritual practice, (Which holds true for Ancient pre-Christian Scandinavian Paganism as well) provides stories of great real life heroes who, (through the re-telling of their deeds and fantastic lives) become elevated somehow into Godhood.

This concept isn’t so far from Norse mythology either, once you distance yourself from a Christian monotheist mind sets that ‘God- Herself” was a male, Homomorphic force humanized as some single handed all father, born from no-where, before the dawn of mankind.

Just as in all pre-Christian spiritual religions, Indo-European paganism was originally based solely on ancestral worship and living daily life in harmony with the surrounding land spirits, the rhythm of Earth’s cycling seasons, and the phases of the moon.

All Pre-Christian Pagan practices followed a similar mind set that what mattered spiritually was living in an animistic harmony with those natural unseen allies, as well as leading an exceptional human-centered tribal life that might be so full of “hero’s deeds” a person (any person-but usually Kings, Earls, Priestess and Priests, or warriors) stood a good chance to be elevated by superhuman feats into Ancestral God-hood; thereby breaking free of the common reincarnation cycle of having to be reborn into ones decendant family line, thus living evermore among the other world’s beings and cosmology.

To be clear, in most cultures worldwide who were pre-iron age, The Homo-sapient appearance and personalities, tales and attributes allotted to many ancient ‘gods’ other than humanized natural phenomena (like weather or topographic areas), began as just that: people…-most notably HEROIC people.

~You see, by generations of Ancestral worship and the diligent retelling of the chosen hero’s tales; each specific hero emerged from their ancestral homeland eventually as an immortal and Divine tribal saving God, -one that cared enough to intercede for his or her people; even long after their body had turned to dust. Through ongoing retelling of their oral legends, holy script, and lore, Many ancient culture’s Heroes live ever on in stories; thereby seeing that immortality ensues, and a God is born.

According to ancestral veneration in its purest form, the thought is if a persons stories continue being heard through the eons, that particular persons Spirit/soul (the fylgja, hamingja, Ek and life force) ~the individual~ is remembered via Their Name; and as long as their story is being recounted and remembered, THAT is THE power used to kept them immortally alive.

As simplistic as it seems, through the consistent admiration, love, and veneration by repeatedly telling a particular hero’s name and life sagas over and over, generations long, is HOW the hero eventually gains enough power from their descendants to become an immortal “god.” By the offspring collectively remembering and generating the adoration needed for a common “person” through collective worship and the retelling of the heroic clan member’s deeds; these spectacular individuals can then by-pass being reborn into their families tribe and thus achieve a state of elevated spiritual afterlife known as God-heads.

That is real Ancestral Spiritual veneration (pre-Christian age) in its purest form.

I bring this up, because in a past posts I have referred to Loki Laufeyson as one of my greatest of grandfathers, and I have gotten some raised eyebrows.

Why would I allude to such a thing?? Because I follow the mindset of true ancestral veneration, and I can trace my DNA back to a tribe of people living in the furthest NW of Europe.

Some of my Ancestors were of the non-Indo-European Finn’s and Sami’s. These anicent tribes of people (via their demographic and animist worship, ritual and primitive nature-based God’s) were a faction of my oldest Ancestral roots, along with a small percentage coming from the Mongolians. These Indigenous people are now thought to be the discriptive source of ‘giants’ found within the Prose and Poetic Edda’s lore which makes sense, since the Icelandic lore discribed the Jötunn (and before hostile absorption-the Vanir as well) as an ‘enemy’ of the more war progressive, “civilized” Aesir.

-I say makes sense, as when referring to acidemia, when we study historical facts, we find any more advanced conquering group of civilized people viewed the overtaken more primitive people as enemies to be vanquished.

So, what does that have to do with being related to Loki?

Well, of late, there has been a pertinent amount of Anthropology based descriptions of Indo-European and Eur-Asia migration that backs my theories the jötunn (as well as the Vanir and Aesir) were originally real tribes of pre to iron age man.

My findings comes from various sources; but my favorite, most concise one, can be found as a shining example from the Book “The Saga of Vanadís, Völva and Valkyrja: Images of the Divine from the Memory of an Islandic Woman,” by Valgerður Hjördís Bjarnadóttir.

In her most excellent book, we find Ms. Bjarnadóttir makes the reference to Marija Gimbutas findings of the Kurgan Invasion into old Europe by stating: “the hybridization of the Jötunn/Vanir and Aesir cultures by the passage: The proto or early in do Europeans[..] arrived from the East from southern Russia on horseback. Their first contact with the borderland territories of old Europe and the lower Dnieper region and West of the Black Sea began around the 5th Millennium BC [..] Following the collision of cultures, old Europe was transformed, and later European pre-history and history became a ‘marble cake’ composed of old European an Indo European elements. The subsequent existence of a very strong non-Indo-European linguistic and mythological substratum then cannot be overlooked.” (Gimbutas 1991 page 352

Ms. Bjarnadóttir goes on to say “{..}North of the Black Sea called the Great or the cold Svíþjóð /Sweden. Svíþjóð could mean tribe of the sow. In Sweden there was at the time of our stories many nations living with many different tongues. {..}To the East of Svíþjóð there was a River called Tanais now known as Don. This River runs into the Black Sea. In ancient times it was called Vanakvisl (the Vanir Delta), and on its west banks lived the people called the Vanir. {…}East of the River Tanais or Don, was Asia or Asaheimur, and their lived the Aesir. There main city was Ásagarthur. According to Snorri the name of their tribe derives from the place of origin Asia but modern scholars such as Ásgeir B. Magnússon (1989) and Simek (1993) have other explanations. Ásgeir suggest that As (plural Aesir) is related to old Indian asu-meaning life force or world. Simek mentions it coming from the root word ans-and mentions the Goddess Vih-ansa {…}My guess is that Asia derives from as, asu, ans-and ahura, meaning the same as Ásgardur, and Ásaheimur, ‘the garden (or world) of the God’ ; or the center of the world. .”

This post is just my own personal take into deeper insights of our contemporary concept of the divine, via a more anthropology-based study which is also married to my own deeper occult practice as to whom and where our ancient concepts of God’s might have come from.

Always do try to keep in mind Dear Reader, mileage may vary, and its up to each reader to do their own independent research in an attempt as all Mystics do, to understand the Sacred within the Profane.

See: https://www.britannica.com/topic/ancestor-worship

Lisatud manus(ed) Pisipilt (pisipildid)
       

(selle postituse viimane muutmine: 15-04-2019 14:31 Lokster.)
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KuKr
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Postitusi: 612
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20-08-2019 15:18
Postitus: #53
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Jäi selline pilt silma. Lihtne aga kõnekas. Pildil Vene Föderatsiooni teadus ja kõrgharidusminister.
[Pilt: ECWVnHrXkAAZQWc?format=jpg]
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I'll be back
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20-08-2019 15:44
Postitus: #54
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Seesama, kes nõudis vene teadlastelt hiljaaegu välismaalastega kohtumisel kõneluste lindistamist ja passide kontrolli?
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KuKr
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Postitusi: 612
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20-08-2019 16:18
Postitus: #55
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
(20-08-2019 15:44 )I'll be back Kirjutas:  Seesama, kes nõudis vene teadlastelt hiljaaegu välismaalastega kohtumisel kõneluste lindistamist ja passide kontrolli?

Mees on veendunud õigeusklik aga riigi teadlaste tegemistes usaldab jummelist rohkem oma lutikaid ja inimluureallikaid. "Usalda aga kontrolli..." Laugh
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I'll be back
Veteran

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20-08-2019 19:57
Postitus: #56
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Vene teadlaste atvamust asjast.

https://youtu.be/4W0ppHEnZnw
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KuKr
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Postitusi: 612
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20-08-2019 20:28
Postitus: #57
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Et nüüd teemasse naasta, võiks vist resümeerida - võimu ega teaduse juurde ei tohi lubada tegevusvaldkonda vähe tundvaid isikuid ega preestreid?
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KuKr
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06-09-2019 08:08
Postitus: #58
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Natuke võtsin tõlkida. Kes soovb, see loeb dokumendid läbi. Jutt käib vene õigeusu kloostrist.

5. Kloostri juhiga suhtlemise reeglid

1) Igumeenit (või iguumenit) tohib küsida mingis konkreetses asjas ainult korra. Edasised täpsustused teha kirjaliku pöördumise kaudu.
2) Viimane sõna jääb alati iguumenile.
3) Mitte kunagi ära suru ennast peale (ära jää endale kindlaks) - see kutsub esile vastupidise reaktsiooni.
4) Juhul, kui vallandub igumeenlik raev, pead vaikima, lugema endamisi palvet, mitte üle kordama, mitte ennast õigustama, pead paluma andestust isegi juhul, kui sa ei ole süüdi ja eemalduma.
5) Mitte kunagi ennast õigustada ega vaielda igumeeniga.
6) Enne vastamist loe palve ja mõtle järele.
7) Vaiki, kuni sinult küsitakse.
8) Mitte kunagi ei tohi igumeenile vahele rääkida, vaid ta tuleb lõuni kuulata ja alles seejärel avaldada oma arvamust.
9) Pead arvesse võtma igmeeni meeleolu...

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Värske väljavõte ühe algaja venemaalase koolipäevikust: Austatud lapsevanemad! ... toimub õpilaste pühitsemine uueks õppeaastaks. Tüdrukutel kaasa võtta rätik.
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(selle postituse viimane muutmine: 06-09-2019 08:36 KuKr.)
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Tyto Alba
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06-09-2019 19:05
Postitus: #59
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
KuKr - tore, et meid valgustasid selle usulahu kloostrikorra detailidest.
Arusaamatuks vaid jääb selle (ilmselge) mustamise katse eesmärk.
Et ka teised aru saaksid kui paha on ikka see õigeusk äkki valgustaksid ka mõne teise usulahu kloostri korrast.
Muidu see siin pole küünemustagi väärt...

Jumal on isiksustatud Egregor...
Huvitav fakt - isik kes ei saa aru millest sa räägid peab lolliks sind mitte ennast.
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Mannu Eemal
uxake

Postitusi: 2,031
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06-09-2019 19:23
Postitus: #60
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Üks vene õigeusu tugevnemise põhjuseid on mitmel rindel pealetungiv islam.
Euroopas on religiooni koha pealt suhteliselt tühi koht. Formaalselt ollakse küll kristlased, kuid sellist südamest ja hingest usku ei ole. Ei leia enam eurooplase hing tuge religioonist, aga mingit uut tuge pole ka tekkinud. Vaakumi on täitmas islam.

Venemaal aga on omausk tugevam. Ja kui on aru saada, et miski võõras on peale tungimas, siis on loomulik et oma tugevneb, et vastu seista.

See, mis inimeste hinge toidab/toetab ei pea olema mingi suur religioon. Ma Eesti konteksti pean silmas, et meie ei peaks küll uuesti oma leiget kristlust hakkama üles soojendama; vaid ikka mingid vähe laiemas mõttes vaimsed väärtused, olgu need kasvõi segatud maausu ja muu sellise värgiga.

Brain expedition.
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KuKr
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06-09-2019 19:50
Postitus: #61
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
(06-09-2019 19:05 )Tyto Alba Kirjutas:  äkki valgustaksid ka mõne teise usulahu kloostri korrast.
Muidu see siin pole küünemustagi väärt...

Ma igas pulmas peiuks ei punni. Piiratus saab siis ju liiga ruttu selgeks. Ühe postitusega terve maailma asjad ära seletada pole mõtet ega võimalik ja keegi ei viitsi ka lugeda. Smile Teiste usulahkude huvitavaid nüansse las avavad teiste usulahkude fännid.
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Tyto Alba
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06-09-2019 20:07
Postitus: #62
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Ei peagi kõike aga mõne võiks - silmaring muidu kasinavõitu ja ühekülgne - võib kiiva kiskuda.

Jumal on isiksustatud Egregor...
Huvitav fakt - isik kes ei saa aru millest sa räägid peab lolliks sind mitte ennast.
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KuKr
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06-09-2019 22:31
Postitus: #63
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
(06-09-2019 20:07 )Tyto Alba Kirjutas:  ...silmaring muidu kasinavõitu ja ühekülgne - võib kiiva kiskuda.

Kurb kuulda. Ma püüangi oma postitustega seda sul natuke avaramaks teha. Õigeusu moskva sekti tegevus puudutab väga suurt hulka inimesi.

Militaristid postitasid sellise pildi, et isegi paljunäinud minul läksid silmad punni. Pildil õnnistab papp vana lahingumoona - kas selleks, et see töötaks või et see enam ei töötaks, pole minu jaoks küll üheselt selge. aga hirmu ajab peale. Mis usk see selline on, mis voodoo, kellele seda vaja on?

[Pilt: EDjTfHWXsAQUU3l.jpg]
(selle postituse viimane muutmine: 06-09-2019 22:35 KuKr.)
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Mannu Eemal
uxake

Postitusi: 2,031
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07-09-2019 09:15
Postitus: #64
RE: Maailma religioonide tulevik.
Vene poliitikute ja sõjaväe suur sõbrustamine religiooniga on vist suht sama, mis indulgentside müük omal ajal katoliiklastel.
Inimesed südames teavad, et teevad pattu, suurt pattu, aga vaja kuidagi süümekaid leevendada. Venelased oma temperamendiga on vinti veel peale keeranud. Relvade õnnistamine - tglt ega vist ei ole ajaloos esmakordne? Riiklikul tasemel aga vist küll... ja et tänapäeval Hrmm

Aga kloostrist kui võimalusest inimesel mõneks ajaks või ka eluksajaks tõmbuda eemale igapäevasebimisest - ma heidan õhku hüpoteesi, et see võiks olla asenduseks ülekoormatud vaimuhaiglatele. Mitte et kloostrielanikud oleks hullud, vaid et sealses rahus on võimalik leida hingelistele probleemidele lahendust. Ja vaimuhaiglad on ülekoormatud elus ummikusse jooksutatud inimestest, niiet tõelised hullud saavad vabalt tänaval nugadega vehkida. Seal muidugi sundravi probleem ka. Halb kui sundravi liiga palju, ja samuti halb kui seda üldse pole.

Luterlus ja ateistlik maailmavaade on kaotanud kloostritega ühe hinge toetava võimaluse.

Millise näite KuKr kloostrikorra kohta tõi, ei ole eeskujuvääririline näide. Igat asja saab kasutada nii heal kui halval eesmärgil.

Mis teie arvate?
(selle postituse viimane muutmine: 07-09-2019 09:43 Mannu.)

Brain expedition.
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